Understanding_Islam

Thanks for the book suggestion. inshallah, i'll definately check it out. As my blog posts indicate, I just started my blog. I would love if we could provide links to each other.
salaam
ahmad

Admin,
I would very much like to civilly discuss and debate theology with you. Allow me to start by saying that any disagreement we have is in the arena of ideas. I believe that God is to be loved and that people are to be loved. For Jesus said that the greatest of the commandments are to love God and to love our neighbor. So, as we debate, I shall seek to conduct myself in a way that honors your personhood - though I may disagree with your ideas.

You refer to Jews and Christians as "People of the Book." The Book - clearly being the Bible. To what extent do you believe the Bible? I hold that the Bible - in its original manuscripts - is the inspired, infallible, authoritative Word of God.

You ask, "Where in the Bible does Jesus state to be 'God'?"

It is actually interesting to note how Islamic theology sort of parallels Mormon theology. Mormons reject the doctrine of the Trinity - as you do.

But in John 8:58, we see the conclusion of an argument that Jesus was having with the Pharisees:

"Before Abraham was born, I am!"

The next verse says, "At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds."

In asserting "I am!" Jesus was equating Himself with Jehovah. God had revealed Himself to Moses at the burning bush, and when He did, He revealed to Moses His Name: "I AM WHO I AM!" God told Moses to tell Pharaoh, "Tell him, 'I AM' sent you."

That's why the Jews were going to stone Jesus, because he had equated himself with Jehovah, and in the Jews ears, this was blasphemy.

In truth, if Jesus is not Jehovah, then he was a blasphemer. The contrapositive of that says that if Jesus was not a blasphemer, then He is Jehovah.

But, in light of this claim, to say that Jesus was neither Jehovah nor a blasphemer is simply illogical.

May God reveal His truth to us.

Assalamu 'alaikum wr wb,

Akhi (brother) Ahmed, you're welcome. Insha'Allah the link exchange is a good idea, we will stop by your blog every now and then and give you links that might be of interest to you and insha'Allah we hope you benefit from it.

Jazakallah khair,

salam

Peace concernedengineer,

Firstly, thank you for your kind comment. God also tells us in the Holy Qur'an to treat our neighbours with kindness. Insha'Allah (God Willing) we will be more than happy to discuss/debate with you in whatever subject you bring to us.

Secondly, WHO IS JEHOVAH? We would like to quote for you what one of our favourite 'comparative religions' scholar (shiekh Ahmed Deedat) wrote concerning this in his book "What Is His Name"--which you will find here on our blog.

---Astonishing as it may sound, it is an admitted fact that prior to the sixteenth century, the word "Jehovah," was unheard of. Whenever the origin of this word appeared in its true Hebrew form in Jewish Scriptures (read from right to left as in Arabic) Yet, Huh, Wav, Huh; or Y.H.W.H. these four letters were preceded by a substitute word "Adonai," to warn the reader that the following word was not to be articulated. The Jews took meticulous care in repeating this exercise in their "Book of God" six thousand, eight hundred and twenty-three times - interpolating the words "Adonai" or "Elohim." They sincerely believed that this awesome name of God was never to be pronounced. This prohibition was no ordinary affair: it called for a penalty of death on one who dared to utter it, and this taboo has been more successful than all the "DO's" and "DON'T's" of the Ten Commandments put together.

If Jehovah is the name of God Almighty, and if the 27 Books of the New Testament were inspired by Him, then it is an anomaly of the highest order, that He (Jehovah) signally failed to have His Own Name recorded in "His Word" (N.T.) the Christian addition to the Jewish Bible. The Christians claim that they have in their possession over twenty-four thousand so-called "originals" of their Holy Writ in the Greek language, and yet not a single parchment has "Jehovah" written in it. Curiously this "name of God" (?) has been sacrilegiously replaced by the Greek words ky'ri.os and the.os', which mean 'Lord' and 'God.' Yet, miracle of miracles - Alleluya! - no devil or saint has been able to eliminate the word "ALLAH" from the so-called New Testament of the Christians.

A hundred years ago, all of a sudden, more than a hundred new cults and denominations of Christiandom mushroomed in the United States of America. The Seventh Day Adventists, the Christian Scientists, the Menonites, the Christiadelphins, The Jehovah's Witnesses and the like. The founder of the last named cult, a Judge Rutherford, about whom the orthodox Christians say that he was no "Judge." This Judge was a voracious book-worm and a prolific writer. He stumbled across the word "Jehovah" which tickled him immensely, and he made a religion out of it.----

Click on this link to read the rest--> http://www.jamaat.net/name/name3.html

After reading that, please get back to us.

As for what we believe as far as the Bible is concerned, please read the book titled 'Is The Bible God's Word'---> http://www.jamaat.net/bible/Bible1-3.html

May Allah, The Almighty, guide you to the right path.

Peace

Admin,

I am aware that Jehovah stems from YHWH. I have been told (and I still need to confirm this) that whenever the word LORD appears in all caps in the Bible, then it is rightly interpreted as YHWH.

In my limited reading about Islam however, I have been led to believe that the name Allah was the name of the god of the moon or the god of the sun. That Allah was essentially the name of some tribal god - this well before Mohammed ever came on the scene. Once Mohammed came on the scene, then suddenly, the name of Allah (the moon god) was suddenly the name of the God of Abraham. This is kinda suspicious, no?

Also, do you acknowledge or deny that the argument between Jesus and the Pharisees that I described above actually happened as I described it? Do you think that Jesus said, "Before Abraham, I am!"? And do you think that the Jews really were ready to stone him at that point?

And if that argument did happen as I have described, then is it not reasonable to conclude that Jesus essentially equated himself with the God that revealed Himself to Moses at the burning bush? (I am assuming that you do believe that God revealed Himself to Moses at the burning bush.... Is that a good assumption to make?)

I would be very interested to learn which parts of the Bible you think are true and accurate and right, and which parts are wrong and inaccurate. And of course, I would like to know why you believe as you do.

And specifically, have you ever read the Book of Romans? What is your take on Romans?

God bless.

Edit: the 55, 000 errors, is supposed to 50, 000 errors.

Peace

I'm talking about the Book of Romans - the book after the Book of Acts in the Bible.

Would you do me the kindness of addressing my point on the argument between Jesus and the Pharisees in John 8. Was Jesus not equating Himself to the God that revealed Himself to Moses at the burning bush? Is that not why the Jews wanted to stone him?

More later.... I'm strapped for time at the moment.

Peace ConcernedEngineer,

As we have said above, many Christians like to quote particular verses from the Bible which they claim supports the divinity of Jesus Christ (peace be upon him).

Some of these verses are:

1. John 8:58 "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."

Christian here associate this verse to the words that God had said to Moses in the Old Testament when He said to him in Exodus 3:14 "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you." What Jesus said is similar to what God had said to Moses therefore they are the same. (Of course Jesus does not say explicitly that he is God here!!)

Other verses Christians like to use are:

In John 10:30 we find that Jesus says "I and my Father are one." This verse, according to Christians, shows clearly that God and Jesus Christ are the same. Also we read in John 20:17, "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God." Here Jesus clearly states that there is distinction between him and God. In other words that Jesus himself has a God. Also Matthew 27:46 "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? That is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Here Jesus Christ cries in loud voice calling his God.

These are two different and opposite ways Jesus relates himself to God. The first one that he and God are one, and the second is that he refers to a higher authority than him which is his God. Now assuming that both are correct statements then we have a contradiction. If, for example, Jesus Christ was God himself as in John 10:30 then it would be more appropriate for him to say "...and to myself, and your God." in John 20:17, or "Myself, Myself, why hast thou forsaken me?" in Matthew 27:46. If, on the other hand, one of them is wrong and the other is correct then we have to discard the one that we believe to be incorrect. Since God does not make mistakes then we no longer believe that the Bible is the word of God (because we believe that there is no contradiction in God's words).

A third possibility is that we have to look at how we can interpret the words of Jesus in those verses. As far as John 20:17 and Matthew 27:46, it is very clear that Jesus has a God whom he prays to and Whom has a higher authority than him. We can back this up with other verses from the bible that say, "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." (John 5:30). Also Jesus says, "...for my Father is greater than I" (John 14:28).

If Jesus and God were the same then he would not have said what he has said in the above verses. Now, the only verse that can be interpreted is John 10:30. It is the only one that does not render itself clear. The only way John 10:30 could be interpreted such that it does not contradict all the other verses is by saying that Jesus meant that he and God have something in common.

To find out what the common grounds are, we have to look at the context which this verse is in:
John 10:27 "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:"
John 10:28 "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."
John 10:29 "My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."
John 10:30 "I and my Father are one."

As can be seen from John 10:28 and John 10:29 that Jesus is telling the Jews that he and God share something in common, and that is; that no one can pluck the faithful from either of their hands. This is what is common between Jesus and God in this case, and not that Jesus is himself God, or that they are exactly the same.

Let us go on to see what Jesus says in John 10:
-John 10:31 "Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him."
-John 10:32 "Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?"
-John 10:33 "The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God."
-John 10:34 "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?"
-John 10:35 "If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;"
-John 10:36 "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?"
-John 10:37 "If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not."
-John 10:38 "But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him."
-John 10:39 "Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,"
-John 10:40 "And went away again beyond Jordan"

In John 10:31 we see that the Jews misunderstood what Jesus had meant by "I and my Father are one." (John 10:30). And in John 10:33 they accuse him of blasphemy. Now, had Jesus been God, or had he and God been one in a literal sense then he should not hesitate to clarify the matter at this point. Jesus at this point says, "Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?" What he is trying to say that if you call "I and my Father are one" blasphemy then you should call what is written in your law "Ye are gods" blasphemy also.

The reasoning here is that "Ye are gods" does not mean that you, the Jews, are Gods, it is rather an expression. It just means that you are godly people. The same with "I and my Father are one." It does not mean that I am God or that we are the same literally. It is just an expression. The same goes for calling himself "the Son of God." This statement should not be taken literally either.

The Holy Quran says, "...Nothing whatsoever (is there) like the like of Him, and He (alone) is All-Hearing and All-Seeing" ( 42: 11). Nothing at all is like God, not Moses, not Jesus, not Muhammad, and certainly nothing of His creation.

Peace